Celso Amorim's interview with Brazil Office
WBO Press Release November 29 2022
• Former Foreign Minister in the governments of Itamar Franco, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, and Dilma Rousseff talks about the foreign policy of the new Brazilian government
• In conversation with James N. Green on the Brazil Unfiltered podcast, the diplomat analyzes the future of relations with the BRICS, South American neighbors, and the United States
Celso Amorim was interviewed in the edition of the Brazil Unfiltered podcast released on Monday, November 28. The hour-long English-language program is available on the main audio platforms, in addition to Youtube. Brazil Unfiltered is a fortnightly podcast produced by the Washington Brazil Office (WBO) and hosted by James N. Green, Brown University professor of Brazilian history and culture.
In the interview, Amorim talks about his almost ten years of experience as Minister of Foreign Affairs in two Brazilian governments – Itamar Franco (1993-1995) and Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (2003-2010) – in addition to his four years as Minister of Defense in the government of Dilma Rousseff (2011-2015). The conversation also considers some foreign policy topics for Lula's new term, scheduled to start on January 1, 2023.
Asked about the possibility of becoming the foreign minister of this new government, Amorim replied: “I don't think so. I think I've done enough. Well, if Lula asks, of course … But I don't think so. If I have a room at the back of the [presidential] palace and he [President Lula] calls me from time to time for coffee once or twice a week, ok, I would be very happy.”
Amorim also spoke about the questions raised by the current president, Jair Bolsonaro, and members of the military around the electoral system and democracy in Brazil, considering that the risk of a coup is over.
“I am quite convinced that they [the Brazilian military] will do everything possible to [respect democracy and the outcome of the elections]. I can't say 'softly' since, as you can see, there are demonstrations going on etc. [in front of the barracks], but I think there is no doubt [about respect for the transition from Bolsonaro to Lula]. I spoke with some of them [military], who are still active, and they are looking to the future. They're not saying 'I love Lula', but they're looking to the future," the former foreign and defense minister explained.
Asked about the war between Russia and Ukraine, Amorim said: “We have no doubt that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine, I must say. I also think it was geopolitically unwise to have expanded NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization]. But we have to look to the future and the urgency of a peace negotiation, and if we can help, giving some alternative voice. . . .”
Throughout the conversation, the diplomat also spoke about the importance of South American integration and the contemporary challenges faced by the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa). He brought up a concern about strengthening the protagonism of the countries of the Global South – something that marked his tenure at the head of the Ministry of Foreign Relations in Lula's first two terms – and analyzed the role of the United States.
Regarding the Americans, Amorim praised the work of the WBO, in informing authorities in the Biden government and members of Congress about the risks that Bolsonaro represented for Brazilian democracy, when he questioned the reliability of electronic voting system without any basis. The pressure exerted by the United States in this case “was essential for the Brazilian elite, which is still very colonized,” the former minister commented.
Still on the subject of the United States, Amorim stated that he expected the Americans would be in favor of “the defense of peace and the rejection of the age of carrying out interventionist crusades,” mentioning by name the cases of Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, and China. For Amorim, “the Biden administration is slowly learning this.”
Brazil Unfiltered is a biweekly program that is in its 50th episode, with an accumulated audience of approximately 15,000 downloads on audio platforms and more than 22,000 views on Youtube. It is an initiative that seeks to give visibility to personalities and organizations of Brazilian civil society to a U.S. public in addition to keeping relevant figures in the United States informed about the Brazilian political and social situation.
